I’m getting a lot of pressure from some people in my family to spank L.
In their opinion: everyone used to be spanked, and turned out just fine. In the old days, kids were afraid of their parents and therefore behaved, and that was a good system. Never would a child dare say some of the stuff L says to me. Spanking would whip him into shape, show him who’s boss, and may only have to be administered one or two times.
I’ve been bombarded with this message for some time and have mostly tuned it out, thanked for the input and went on about my non-spanking business. But L does seem out of control. Are they right?
I don’t think spanking is evil, and I don’t believe that if used as one form of measured discipline it is child abuse. I just can’t imagine doing it. And I can’t imagine it working.
L is a smart kid. When he uses a bad word and I correct him, he says “but you do it!” So how will he react, post spanking, if he swats at me or S and I tell him not to hit?
Then again, he does seem to be confused about what level of respect he should show towards me. Am I not authoritative enough? Would spanking him show him that I am, in fact, the boss? Maybe it would shock him enough to get the message through that he is not allowed to speak to me that way. Then again, could hitting a young child on his bottom possibly garner me more respect? Isn’t respect something someone feels out of reverence, not fear? Or maybe a little fear is good?
The other day when he didn’t get his way he told T that he was going to break everything in the house. T replied, “Well, then you’d have to find somewhere else to live.” L’s mad face vanished and was replaced with real worry as he asked in all sincerity, “But then who will keep me safe?” (Insert heartbreak and paternal guilt here.) Do I want him to feel that his place with me is at all tenuous? Isn’t early childhood the one time in a person’s life when he should feel entirely free from worry and fear?
My pro-spanking relatives would tell me that I’m way over-thinking. That back in the day parents didn’t think of all this stuff and that kids’ emotions weren’t really considered important. And that everyone turned out just fine. But did we? All the parents I know think a lot about our kids’ emotional needs. Is that a reaction to our own parents dismissing ours? Maybe we’re raising our kids differently on purpose.
It’s hard to be on the receiving end of so much pro-spanking rhetoric, especially because it’s from people who know and love L and only want what’s best for him (and me). Is it possibly true that one or two spanks could lead to total L reform? That this simple solution is just sitting there waiting while I bang my head against the wall trying desperately, but in vain, to solve the problem with assorted new-fangled approaches?
So there you have it. My tangled mess of thoughts on spanking. What do you think?
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I don’t know that I’ll ever be able to spank my child. My parents never spanked my brother or I and found other ways to reprimand us. I want to raise my daughter the same way. I say follow your gut. You know your child more intimately than anyone else and instinctively I think you’ll know if spanking will work for L or not. Good luck no matter what your choose. It’s not easy either way.
This is a tough one. Of course, I don’t have any real answers. However, two things come to mind. First, I have a friend who is chronically ill with an unknown, debilitating disease. She recently blogged that every time she consults a new specialist, she hopes that a lightbulb will go off and she will walk away with THE ANSWER, and it never happens. Although it is a different situation than what you are dealing with, I think perhaps there may be some similarities between complex medical cases and child psychology in that they are both complicated. Maybe neither is as susceptible to a magic bullet as we would like. And, as you have pointed out, there are risks involved in spankling L (e.g., letting him believe that hitting is acceptable). The second thing that comes to mind is that my brother and I were occasionally spanked as children and while I do think we turned out okay, I know that we did hit each other as children quite a bit–God only knows whether we hit each other because our parents hit us or just because we were siblings and kids, but our parents probably were not in the best position to argue that hitting is never okay. That said, I know that L is especially challenging and that you have pretty much tried everything else. If you decide to give spanking a try, I support you. Good luck!
Is it silly to say try it once and see what happens?
I’m personally for spanking. Every now and then, if a child does something that warrants it, a spanking is in order. Once I have children, they will know that if they do something REALLY terrible (like steal, hurt a sibling, etc.), they will be spanked.
I do remember one discipline method an old friend had for her child when he was 3-4 years old. She would sit him in a corner and make him stare at the wall for 5 minutes or so. He’d cry because he hated it so much. I don’t think it’s so much whether or not you should spank, it’s finding a punishment that will be effective.
You do know you are opening up a can of worms with this one 🙂
Me, my parents did not spank. My husbands parents made him pick his switch. I thought I would NEVER spank, but on occassion I have and it hasn’t ruined my kids or my relationship with my kids. It is not something I ever planned to do, but some kids respond to it…while some don’t. I think you know your kid and may have to try several punishment styles to find what “clicks” for him.
Good Luck and hope you get some good pro and con advice so you can weigh your options and make a decision that works for you.
I spanked my kids until it occurred to me that sometimes I’d be SO angry at them for whatever they’d done that (insert cringe here) I actually enjoyed spanking them. I quit doing it. If it doesn’t feel right to you, don’t do it and to hell with what everyone else thinks.
You definitely need to find some consistent form of punishment for L. If the consequences of threatening to, or actually punching Mommy are bad, we don’t do that anymore. I know you have listed things you have tried in the past, but that he hasn’t cared about many of them. And there are many punishments (taking away TV time) that punish you too much, right? So find something that works for you.
My humble opinion is to clean out the garage and start parking the car in there. Then put him in time outs in the car seat. He won’t be too cold, but it won’t be pleasant. You will be able to hear him, maybe even see him, without him seeing how nearby you still are. He will be contained and safe, while you have 3 minutes to breathe, decompress, do shots etc. before you return to him. Let him know as you are bringing him outside that if he hits/bites/kicks you, his time out will be longer. If you start this now, before he gets any bigger/heavier, you can hope to save your back later!
The garage comment reminded me that we knew someone that had a “different” car seat inside that they used when their daughter would hit etc. They had to strap her in for their safety and hers.
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Oh geez do I feel stupid. Sorry. I just read this after I responded to your other one. Really I am not an awful mom and grandmother. Please don’t be mad at me 🙂 Or well I guess you can if you want.
Ok well here I am again. I watched Scared Straight last night, the show where the teenage girls who had just started getting into trouble are taken too a prison to be “scared straight” and trust me you would rather spank now than visit in jail later. It all comes down to consequenses and they have to learn those. It’s all a part of growing up. As an adult if you seriously break the law you go to jail. Where you might get a spanking that you really don’t want. So for kids if you throw a tantrum and break a toy then we don’t go to the store and buy another one. You pay the consequences.
I feel like I told you this before, so I apologize if I’m repeating myself.
I can’t spank, just can’t.
But Miss A spent about 6 months of her life trying to crawl into the oven (even when on). We had many close calls, and I had to rig something to keep it closed or if I was actively cooking, someone always stood guard.
Then one day it was a good 400+ degrees, open, and she RAN for it to get in. Without thinking I instinctively jumped in front of the open oven, and one-armed threw her across the room.
Obviously her crash into the cabinet was safer than the scalding hot oven burns she would get otherwise. Once it was over I felt awful. Until…
This single act of what she saw as physical confrontation scared the sh** outta her. She never went near the oven again.
So I’m not saying to spank, but it sounds like L is a clever, mouthy, complicated kid like Miss A has proven to be. The one time she saw me do something to her completely unlike me it shocked her and she realized This Woman Means Business.
maybe it is time to shock L? Not sure how, but maybe think of what response to his behavior is most unlike YOU and shock the little guy into realizing where the line is drawn in your relationship.
Good luck.
put the child into the carage??? what kind of an assosiation will he get with that? next time you need to drive somewhere and he has to sit in the same car same seat he will be asking what did i do wrong now?
i saw my little brother being spnaked almost for everything and i have to say i did not see anything change or him to learn from it.
mu husband sais that he got spanked and he hated it but it didnt stop him doing stupid things.
my son is 7. and i have spanked him only once. did not like that i got so angry and i dont think he really got the point of it eather.
i think children learn from example, disipline and consequenses. and it all needs to be consistent. ALL THE TIME!
I don’t think that choosing not to spank is any kind of failure or sign of weakness. I agree with your sense that it sends the wrong message @ hitting. I don’t have a good answer yet with my own defiant child, though, except that we are starting family counseling. Is that an option for you? I remember you mentioning working with someone on L’s behavior, but don’t know/ remember what came of it. I hope you find a solution you feel comfortable with. Don’t be afraid to say “thank you for your concern” (translation, “he’s my kid and I’ll parent him as I see fit!”)
This is a tough one…you have really been through the ringer with him and I’m sure you feel like you’re at the end of your rope. I had my a$$ smacked a few times and I can totally remember them. It wasn’t an everyday thing. I turned out just fine and know the ramifications of eavesdropping.
I have 2.5-year old twins. They have gotten a little smack here and there. I can’t say that it did anything to change their behavior long-term, but it did stop the behavior in that moment. I also noticed an increase in hitting (of me and each other) after I would do this. Not what I wanted.
Have you read The Strong Willed Child? I have a friend who is currently in the throes of something like this and she is finding some solutions in that book. Something tells me you’ve read that though. I wish you luck…peace…happiness. It will come…I just wish I could tell you when.
Wow. I’m so glad I’m not alone. We don’t spank. A friend of mine wrote a book called “Beat Black Kids,” which is clearly about NOT beating black kids. As a culture, we are a little too quick to lay down the law with a smack. Which is understandable, as a badly behaved child, historically, could mean disaster for a slave family. But today, we don’t have to get INSTANT ACT RIGHT which is what spanking does get you. It also gets you a kids that’s afraid of you, too. We try to keep the spankings for EMERGENCIES as described above.
But today, my 2 year old’s teacher says he has been pushing and running and not listening and falling down when he doesn’t want to walk where the class is walking.
Awesome.
We are still deciding what to do, so I’ll be listening…
So far, we are thinking that he has to stop falling down in the middle of the street. So that might warrant some butt taps. That’s kinds dangerous. As far as the running about instead of participating nicely? I’m thinking that I’ll have some similar activities at home and show strong displeasure/timeouts when he doesn’t listen. And shoving is an instant time out.
But sometimes, I hear the old timers in my head — LIGHT THOSE LEGS UP AND HE’LL BEHAVE. Yes, but I
m telling him not to hit … then hitting him.
First, whatever answer suits you—and ultimately, L,—is the right answer.
Second, we have a policy of “unplanned spanking.” We look for “I know it when I see it behavior.” For instance, I first spanked my oldest when she was, maybe 3?, because she ran into a crowded parking lot. I needed her to pay very close attention to my near hysterical reminder that she should never run away from me into a busy parking lot. The spanking worked wonders there. And the twins have been spanked a few times. We all seem to be just find. They hit each other some times, and some times they don’t. Who can pinpoint the why?
My rule is to never spank out of rage. I know, when else should you do it, right? When all is well? But I think you know what I mean. If you’re the only one benefiting from the spank, it’s probably the wrong time. I know this from experience.
But I’m all for hell to pay consequences. We’ve skipped a few major outing sbecause of bad behavior. Maybe you have, too? The big Zoo trip, a party or two, like that.
If I were confronted with a willful child who was not responding to anything else, I would find a way to remind him or her that the world he lives in doesn’t turn without my say so. I would empty her bedroom, bring toys to GoodWill, take away all snacks, whatever, for however long it took to get the message through. Truly. I would.
I wish you the best of luck finding that pressure point with L that will help him to push the other complications out of the way and focus on the one small truth that matters: respect. You respect mommy, daddy, and your sister and you’ll be treated with respect and a certain amount of freedom to exercise your will.
Crap. And remember, I’m screwing this up every day. I yell too loudly, too often, and say things I regret. I fail to follow through on both promises and threats. So when I’m handing out this advice, I’m also doing it as a reminder to myself.
I don’t like to spank. I have in the past and will if I have to but I really don’t think it is necessary all the time. I know parents that do spank all the time. I feel for the kids. I think this teaches the kids to hate and that they are not loved. But everyone has a different opinion.
I’m not a mom, so I don’t know how much my opinion is worth, but honestly, I don’t think that spanking is horrible. That being said, I’m not sure it’ll lead to a child’s reform, and well, there are other ways of getting a child to behave that does not involve spanking them, at least according to SuperNanny. If you don’t feel comfortable with it, you shouldn’t do it. If you think it’ll lead to L hitting his sister or others, you shouldn’t do it. But, it’s a choice you and T should make, not anyone else. Yes, the pro-spanking team are people who love you and wants what best for you, but you are L’s mommy. You know him best, and you should do what YOU think is best. That’s just my two cents.
You ask tough questions. Good ones. But tough ones.
I never spanked post The Gremlin.
Now I spank occasionally when something The Gremlin does is dangerous.
I don’t like doing it but some kids are really spirited (I hate myself for making that statement lol).
Our three year olds sound so very much alike. Spanking is a personal decision. I can tell you that it does help me get a point across to The Gremlin, who unlike my oldest, really doesn’t listen when you talk to him.
I hope you don’t struggle too much with whatever you choose. I think spanking does have a place in motherhood if you administer it outside of anger. Good Luck hun.
I really struggled with spanking myself, so I get just how you feel.
My son isn’t remotely old enough yet for me to be dealing with this personally, and I’m not going to quote developmental psychology research at you because what the scientists say and the reality of parenting are sometimes two very different things. I’m also not going to compare my upbringing or my husband’s to that of your son and give you my $0.02 based on that.
So instead I will ask, have you considered calling in Supernanny? Half-joking, half-serious.
If I could call her in but not be on TV I would in a heartbeat!
Only you can answer that question. Does spanking L sit right with you?
Do you feel it’s something YOU could do?
I’m pro choice on the smacking issue. I’ve done it but don’t do it as a consistant form of discipline.
It has no positive reaction on one of my kids (I cop lip and the sitch gets worse) and the other dissolves into guilt inducing tears for far longer than necessary so I choose not to go there because it’s more trouble than it’s worth.
It used to work on the lip giving child but something switched about 2 years ago and ever since, there isn’t any point.
You have to do what feels right for you. If it’ssomething that doesn’t really phase you then maybe give it a whirl and see how you go.
I will say though, in my opinion, L isn’t the kind of kid who will get anything out of it. From what I’ve read, in my opinion, he is more likely to just lash out after being smacked.
It’s all well and good for people to tell you what you should and shouldn’t be doing but the reality is, they don’t know him like you do. They don’t have him/deal with him on a daily basis, they don’t then deal with the backlash.
Some goodies in my house are making the child pick their own favourite toy to be taken away. I’ve got a bag that I take to the local charity once every couple of months. I’ve made my girls put their chosen toys in there to go to less fortunate children.
Another winner is having them put their hands on their heads for the minutes x their age.
I did it with them one day and man alive, ouch and irritation plus. You don’t want to be hanging around with your hands on your head for very long, I can assure you.
Anyway, this has become longwinded as usual…
My suggestion is that you should do what you feel you can do and are comfortable with and don’t let you feel guilty for doing otherwise.
I almost posted about this, and I commend you for doing it with such a hot topic. My husband and I often have this discussion. I won’t add my two cents, you’ll get lots of that, but kudos to you for starting the discussion.
Are you not adding your 2 cents because I spent a buck fifty on my opinion already? I spent all the cents, didn’t I?
My two cents as one of the pro-spanking relatives who loves L and who has kids who get in line instantly in terrified obedience just from the the threat of a spanking after only 1 or 2 spanks in their 6 year life time – You need to find something to make that kid know who’s in control and that it isn’t him. If it’s not a spanking – figure something else out and soon because he’s getting bigger, smarter and stronger all the time. It has to be something so awful to him that you can hang over him and have him realize, oh yeah, I’m the kid and this person is in control, not me. I think 1 or 2 spankings and you’d see some results. Not a spanking (or whatever other solution you go with) in the heat of being irritated with him. Build up to it. Have a family meeting and discuss how certain behavior is no longer going to be acceptable. EVER. Tell him what will happen next time he does anything like that. And then follow through. Clearly a time out isn’t doing it – must be more drastic. Ok, that’s my 2 cents.
Don’t get size 7 – it’s huge! If he still loves purple, I have a coat for him :).
Ok, I just read through some of the comments and realize that Nicole (Ninja Mom) said what I am trying to say but much better. And definitely that part about the not always following my own advice part and yelling too much, too loudly.
Allison,
I was thinking about you and had to come back and comment again. I guess I just wanted to let you know that this really is just a 3 year old thing and it will pass. It isn’t anything you are doing or not doing and for me, those concerns often outshine the behavioral concerns.
Don’t worry yourself too much. This too shall pass. Even if it does seem endless right now.
This is a really tough issue. Hot button, etc. I think it honestly depends on the child. For some children, a stern “(insert name here), STOP.” when they’re running somewhere they shouldn’t is enough to startle them into minding their parents. I think that other children need to be reached in a different manner. A swat on the butt, a smack on the hand when reaching for something hot gets through to them more than a “no!”. I’m not opposed to spanking, but my child is also only 1 year old and so far she understands “no” very well. I haven’t gotten to the hard discipline stage. Before I became a parent, I would have posted a lengthy & preachy comment about what I thought but if I’ve learned just one thing from a year of parenthood, it’s that I don’t know anything about ANYTHING and this whole being a mom thing is a constant learning process.
OK, Allison. You probably don’t want to hear this, but I discussed this with M too and he is in that profession. Spanking may lead to a child thinking that is the way to solve problems. This is, especially here in the South, where children think when they do not get their way, that hitting someone is the solution. This is where you get school bullies from. They cannot hit back at home, so they come to school and hit other kids. It’s like the old cartoon, the husband comes home from a bad day at work and yells at the wife, which makes the wife feel like hitting somebody, so she easily hits the kid, and the kid then hits his/her little sister or brother, and then the sister or brother kicks the dog. Anyway, we are thinking that if all else failed, it might be time to see somebody with L. He may not have control of his behavior and spanking may not make things better. Just like his cousin S, who was frustrated by not hearing things, L could be frustrated by the impulsivity that has taken over his body and thoughts. It may be time to get some professional help. Even he will be much happier.
All I have to say is….go with the Montessori method.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_method
Hi Allison,
Your son reminds me so much of my own about a year ago.
I agree that spanking as a means of discipline doesn’t really make much sense. What is frustrating about using alternative means of discipline is that often times our efforts are ineffective because our kids are just too busy having an attitude or acting out to listen. So I’ve started something a bit different…
When I’m speaking to/disciplining my son and he’s not listening (this is going to sound so weird) I tap my finger firmly but painlessly on his cheek. Just enough to get his attention and distract his behavior, then I continue to speak firmly to him and let him know he needs to stop and listen to me.
Regarding the actual discipline, what has worked for us (finally) is instituting a system of losing and earning privileges. Each day I set the stage. For example: “Today we are going to really work on not hitting/talking back/yelling. If you hit someone today you will lose you CD Player – it will be taken out of your room. If you have a good day and keep your hands to yourself you get to keep your CD player AND you will get to stay up 15 extra minutes to play before bed!” This has given us the most consistent success!
Anyway, its all trial and error. What works one month doesn’t always work the next, as you know.
Good luck!!
Interesting news story on the generational divide over the spanking issue – parents who don’t want to spank and grandparents who do:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/video/spanking-fair-punishment-11094507
For the record, I don’t feel that spanking should become the main form of punishment – I feel it can be used very occasionally for a willful child who is not responding to other methods of discipline in hopes that the threat of a future spanking will get the child to behave. And I value our aunt’s advice but disagree – I believe it’s the kids who are not getting appropriately disciplined at home who are violent in school. A spanking should not be a lash out in anger as in her example.
Congrats on top 5 🙂
[…] I wrote the post on spanking I expected criticism and a full-out mommy war in the comments. I mean, it’s touchy stuff! But […]
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I’m sure you’ve heard it all by now, but I thought I’d share my two cents. I’m 22 (almost 23) and was a child of a “spanker”. Typically spankinsg were few a far between. They were the ultimate punishment for really bad behaviors like disrespecting my parents, teachers etc. I was a very loving child, but a handful. I firmly believe that spankings if used correctly can be an effective tool. Out of all my friends (me being the only one who ever got a spanking) I treated my parents with the most respect, was only in big trouble (as a teen) one time, and am a happy and well adjusted adult. My biggest emotional problems come from my parents divorce, not the spankings. I have worked in Daycares before, with the kids who’s parents never spank them and they’re rotten. Time out works on submissive kids, but dominant kids…..sometimes you just have to pull the ‘ol alpha dog trick and put them in their place. It sounds heartless, but in the long run your goal is to raise respectful, happy and well adjusted adults who know that actions have consequences. I day never goes by that I don’t think about what I’m doing and I avoid trouble like the plague. To this day “being bad” gives me a knot in the pit of my stomach. I know I won’t get spanked, but I do realize my actions can have really bad consequences.
Anyway, you’re the mom and you have to do what you feel is best for you kiddos. Good luck!
I know … *sigh* … I can only speak for me. But as a 56 yr old grandmother who was spanked I can only add this:
Why – is hitting a child legal and seen to be fine, if not great, when hitting an adult or animal isn’t ? To start with for me this is enough. Spanking is wrong.
And for another, from my personal point of view? From the first time I was spanked by my parents, they lost me. I lost my love, respect and trust in them. I learned resentment, hate and anger. I learned that they didn’t love me – and telling me they loved me after hitting me really did NOT mean a thing. I was alienated and couldn’t understand for 1 second why they would HIT me, [when hitting was bad, wasn’t it ??] and that it never taught me anything anyway – nothing good !!
A child learns to not want to be spanked – not right from wrong or the reason why.
The usual arguments for spanking a little one are as follows:
Electrical sockets – fit them with child proof covers
Stoves – fit it with a hob-bar which stops a child pulling stuff onto itself
Toddlers in the road – use reins when shopping, don’t put them in the garden if there is no wall or gate.
I raised two children without spanking them – and they are wonderful gentle adults.
Good luck … parent hood is very hard and we have some horrible decisions at times. It’s not easy not to spank, but I feel it is much more kind and effective.
I love your blog! As I was responding to your spank blog I realized, I had way to much response to fit in a response block…so I blogged a response. http://rebeccaflys.blogspot.com/2011/02/my-take-on-spank.html
I spanked my kids. Not often, and not hard, but I did it and I wouldn’t undid it.
Here’s a quick story; my grandfather had 8 kids. He used a “switch” to spank. After one of his sons slighted another son somehow, Gramps sent the offended child to get a switch. Said child came back with a pricker bush whip, which his father promptly swatted HIM with. The offending brother went free. Do unto others, right? A little Family Lore there for you.
[…] Source: http://motherhoodwtf.com/2011/01/21/to-spank-or-not-to-spank/ […]
Personally, I think it is a personal choice. That said however, I do believe there are right ways and wrong ways to spank. I spanked until they were 5 years old they are all now indepndent self sufficient adults and the aunts and uncles who shamed me guess what (there kids are in prison!) Mine are grad school graduates with real jobs!
I scheduled spankings.
Here is how I handled punishment.
#1. Ask child if they know what they did was wrong
#2. Have child go to a corner or room and sit and think about what they did that was wrong
#3. Have child explain to you how they will handle it diffrent next time.
#4. Hands on sofa butt up one spanking with my hand.
Repeat offense longer to think and two spankings.
Older children got punishments in my words where they “live”
Examle they just got a new ipod take it away when they commit a crime and they have to earn it back.
They want to go to prom , homecoming, concert take it away they have to earn it back (make earning it back really hard ) Groundings do not work unless you can find a way to take away phones (all phones, all computers, everything that keeps them in touch) (this is almost impossible now so just realize that and hit them where they live!
Happy that mine turned out well!!!!!
As I have said before, and will say again – hitting a child – shouldn’t BE a choice, personal or otherwise. Hitting any living being is wrong – from a worm, to a puppy to an adult and especially to a child! And much more than this – the mere thought of hitting a child shouldn’t even be in our heads. Again yes, I thought about it – in the heat of the moment – and I feel terrible about it. I am 56 and never spanked – and my children are now great and gentle adults !
I cannot understand for the life of me, how parents with little ones especially, cannot keep them away from the stove ! I used a playpen, a high chair, a low chair and a gate at the kitchen door at different times.
Children are never ‘rotten’ they are a product of the parents. And if discipline in the home isn’t used – and I mean teaching with words and demonstration, and all the other things like time outs/ grounding etc. then the children may well be hard to care for in daycare or school. I hate it when people say ‘all the children acting up in the supermarket/school are so obviously the ones who aren’t spanked’ – because unless you are psychic or ask the parents for an honest answer you cannot tell. I have know children from both environments and they can be equally ‘good’ or ‘naughty’.